Valve Adjust Question. .006 or zero???

[Wild Bill Tucker]

Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?



Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!

"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic

Rare Air VW Club Website:
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

[Jan Andersson]

Go to "loose" zero. You need to be able to spin the pushrod freely with
the tip of your finger when that cylinder is at TDC, combustion cycle.

Depending on the cam grind, there may be noticeable valve lash ELSEWHERE
during the cycle, some cams just aren't ground that even. I would
personally make sure they stay loose the entire duration that the valve
is supposed to stay close.

Valve clearance GROWS as the engine warms up, WITH STEEL RODS.

With aluminum rods it's the opposite, the clearance gets smaller as the
engine warms up.

Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

[Joao Eliseu]

Jan,

Do you have any idea of the valve clearance when the engine is hot with aluminum
rods? Supposing that they were set correctly to 0.15mm with cooled engine.

Post by Jan Andersson
Go to "loose" zero. You need to be able to spin the pushrod freely with
the tip of your finger when that cylinder is at TDC, combustion cycle.
Depending on the cam grind, there may be noticeable valve lash ELSEWHERE
during the cycle, some cams just aren't ground that even. I would
personally make sure they stay loose the entire duration that the valve
is supposed to stay close.
Valve clearance GROWS as the engine warms up, WITH STEEL RODS.
With aluminum rods it's the opposite, the clearance gets smaller as the
engine warms up.
Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

Joao
72 Super 1302

[Jan Andersson]

Not really. The factory recommandation was originally 0,10mm but people
got lazy in the 70's and stopped maintaining their cars properly, and
skipped valve adjustments. It was such a nasty task. If the valves were
set to 0.10 and not cared for since, there presumably were cases where a
neglected engine like this had clearances all over the place, some
valves got tight and burned. So VW changed their instructions to 0.15mm
to keep the lazy people's cars running without problems. Longer
maintenance interval that way.

This leads me to think that 0.10 is normal when cold, and it shrinks
down to almost zero when warm. It's a guess only. Maybe the better
repair books would know.

Or Bob Hoover.

Jan

Post by Joao Eliseu
Jan,
Do you have any idea of the valve clearance when the engine is hot with aluminum
rods? Supposing that they were set correctly to 0.15mm with cooled engine.

Post by Jan Andersson
Go to "loose" zero. You need to be able to spin the pushrod freely with
the tip of your finger when that cylinder is at TDC, combustion cycle.
Depending on the cam grind, there may be noticeable valve lash ELSEWHERE
during the cycle, some cams just aren't ground that even. I would
personally make sure they stay loose the entire duration that the valve
is supposed to stay close.
Valve clearance GROWS as the engine warms up, WITH STEEL RODS.
With aluminum rods it's the opposite, the clearance gets smaller as the
engine warms up.
Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

Joao
72 Super 1302

[Wild Bill Tucker]

Hey Jan ,
Bob Hoover did know better . Received a nice email from him. I also
checked the archives via Google search and got a ton of info. Will play
with the lash adj. (that doesn't sound right does it ? ) and see what
works best for my little engine. BTW lots of priceless info in those
Google searches ;-)



Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!

"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic

Rare Air VW Club Website:
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

[Jan Andersson]

Go Bob!
You can pretty much trust what he says. Unless it's something about me ;)

Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Hey Jan ,
Bob Hoover did know better . Received a nice email from him. I also
checked the archives via Google search and got a ton of info. Will play
with the lash adj. (that doesn't sound right does it ? ) and see what
works best for my little engine. BTW lots of priceless info in those
Google searches ;-)
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President
Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape"
'69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

[tricky]

You can always set it cold and measure it hot - see the difference in your
engine !
Rich

Post by Jan Andersson
Not really. The factory recommandation was originally 0,10mm but people
got lazy in the 70's and stopped maintaining their cars properly, and
skipped valve adjustments. It was such a nasty task. If the valves were
set to 0.10 and not cared for since, there presumably were cases where a
neglected engine like this had clearances all over the place, some valves
got tight and burned. So VW changed their instructions to 0.15mm to keep
the lazy people's cars running without problems. Longer maintenance
interval that way.
This leads me to think that 0.10 is normal when cold, and it shrinks down
to almost zero when warm. It's a guess only. Maybe the better repair books
would know.
Or Bob Hoover.
Jan

Post by Joao Eliseu
Jan,
Do you have any idea of the valve clearance when the engine is hot with aluminum
rods? Supposing that they were set correctly to 0.15mm with cooled engine.

Post by Jan Andersson
Go to "loose" zero. You need to be able to spin the pushrod freely with
the tip of your finger when that cylinder is at TDC, combustion cycle.
Depending on the cam grind, there may be noticeable valve lash ELSEWHERE
during the cycle, some cams just aren't ground that even. I would
personally make sure they stay loose the entire duration that the valve
is supposed to stay close.
Valve clearance GROWS as the engine warms up, WITH STEEL RODS.
With aluminum rods it's the opposite, the clearance gets smaller as the
engine warms up.
Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape" '69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

Joao
72 Super 1302

[Joao Eliseu]

I thought that may be someone had already tested it.
So, if someone checks the valves once a year and drives about 2000KM a year, it
will be ok to set the clearance 0.10mm. I think it is a question of noise not a
question of performance. Is this correct?

Post by tricky
You can always set it cold and measure it hot - see the difference in your
engine !
Rich

Post by Jan Andersson
Not really. The factory recommandation was originally 0,10mm but people
got lazy in the 70's and stopped maintaining their cars properly, and
skipped valve adjustments. It was such a nasty task. If the valves were
set to 0.10 and not cared for since, there presumably were cases where a
neglected engine like this had clearances all over the place, some valves
got tight and burned. So VW changed their instructions to 0.15mm to keep
the lazy people's cars running without problems. Longer maintenance
interval that way.
This leads me to think that 0.10 is normal when cold, and it shrinks down
to almost zero when warm. It's a guess only. Maybe the better repair books
would know.
Or Bob Hoover.
Jan

Post by Joao Eliseu
Jan,
Do you have any idea of the valve clearance when the engine is hot with
aluminum
rods? Supposing that they were set correctly to 0.15mm with cooled engine.

Post by Jan Andersson
Go to "loose" zero. You need to be able to spin the pushrod freely with
the tip of your finger when that cylinder is at TDC, combustion cycle.
Depending on the cam grind, there may be noticeable valve lash ELSEWHERE
during the cycle, some cams just aren't ground that even. I would
personally make sure they stay loose the entire duration that the valve
is supposed to stay close.
Valve clearance GROWS as the engine warms up, WITH STEEL RODS.
With aluminum rods it's the opposite, the clearance gets smaller as the
engine warms up.
Jan

Post by Wild Bill Tucker
Running a 1776cc, engle 110 cam, 041 heads, swivel adjusters, steel
push rods.
Set valves at .006 and I getting a lot of rocker arm chatter like the
valves are too loose. Performance not affected, runs solid, just
somewhat noisy. Since I'm running the steel push rods should I go to a
zero lash adjustment. This has been suggested by a couple of engine
garus in the Club but what say you? Bob ? Jan ? Bueller? Bueller?
Bueller ?
Be Cool.....AIRCOOLED !!
"Wild" Bill Tucker
President Rare Air VW Club
Pensacola, Florida
'78 VW Bus ( "Old Rusty" )
'76 Bug "The Grape" '69 Squareback , Arizona car, Automatic
http://community.webtv.net/stlkikn/RAREAIRVWCLUBINFO/

Joao
72 Super 1302

Joao
72 Super 1302

[a***@yahoo.com]

I've always used the 0.1mm (.004") on both my 1970 1500sp engine
(that's it's original specs) and on the 1600 dual port engines, which
had the 0.15mm (.006") specification, and have never had a problem of
tight valves. The 0.1mm gives a slightly quieter engine, and so long
as you adjust the valves every 3000miles (5k km), the smaller clearance
works just fine.

I agree with Jan - the wider 0.15mm (.006") seems to be a setting to
allow for less regular maintenance.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
www.vw-resource.com